Reason I wished that most parents wouldn't allow their 14 year old play. 18 and up should only be allowed to play these games period.

I don't think its as simple as saying don't let your 14 year old play this game. I think its more of a combination of things, one of which is when the parents of this 14 year old play too, and they have high level characters. They then powerlevel their child (because they love him) and give him tons of nice stuff. He doesn't have to learn to get along with anyone, because he has mommy and daddy to protect him and give him presents when he needs them.

/|\

Typical fed-up-with-these-damn-kids-with-better-gear-and-higher-levels-than-me response from an adult who thought age would be the answer to all his problems, and was sadly mistaken.

Also notice that he said this is the stereotypical male teenager. Not all, but stereotypes have to come from somewhere; not every 14-year old male is a testosterone-crazed self-promoting lunatic, even though some are.

Jim, are you a smart adult? I'm sure you're answer is yes. If you are a smart adult, would you not have also been a smart kid? Or do you admit that you were one of these kids who you do not want playing these games - are you admitting that you wouldn't want your younger self playing this game that you so thoroughly enjoy in your older age?

I am 15 years old. I am not at all like the "typical 14-year-old". As a matter of fact, I enjoy helping others and gaining frienships. I like to lead sometimes, but not most of the time. My Theoretician, Egoist, and Loyalist were my strong points, so you can say I am a foil to this so called "typical 14-year-old".

You say only 18 year olds and older should play these games, Jim? Don't you think it is a little selfish, or even immature, to imply that? I have met MANY bullying, controlling, selfish adults in the MMORPG world. I admit that I did get the impression they were younger than I was, but that just goes to show that a lot of adults shouldn't be playing these games either.

I also have to disagree. I have no problem with 14 year olds playing an MMORPG. Sure some may take what they want when they see it even if it is at the expense of other players but who cares, but I know 30 years olds who also do this. Its a RPG and as I see it you need someone to play the part of the bad guy.

Face it that game would be even more boring if everyone was nice and acted like little angels. You know the way you wished they would. The entire game would be leveling and there wouldn't even be a point in interacting with other players or arming your self better then everyone else.

Greifers are part of the game. Maybe 14 year olds are the majorty of them. Oh well. I am sure these more mature individuals with lofty ideas can out think a little hormon crazied kid, right?

This is what SOE knows and none of the winers never think of. If MMO's are to grow the need to hook kids. If you don't turn them into geeky RPGers young they will turing into FPS gaming punks, like myself.

Also the thing that pisses me the... I hold my tounge. But anyway what pisses me off the most is all of this profiling stuff but age. This is the internet. Internet communitys are based around the idea that age, creed, sex, or class don't matter. The day the net starts working like the real world will be a tragic day. People who scream for age restriction to be a requirment for RPG games are pushing us one step closer to such an internet.

The reason fed-up-with-these-damn-kids-with-better-gear-and-higher-levels-than-me adults are always wineing about "punk ass kids" is because they have lives. They are no longer children and cannot play games 8 hours a day and 30 hours a weekend.

Note: I am 13 and three quarters. Do I sound like a testotrone driven teenager? Another year maybe? :)

Roba, I would never forbid my children to play MMORPG. But I would definitely forbid them to play 8 hours a day, 30 hours a weekend. Because it is not wise to spend the lifetime in MMORPG, although it is a great fun for me as well. The only difference between kids and adults is that an adult holds full responsibility for his life, while kid does not. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

As a veteran of several MMORPGS and a 40 year old, I see no problem with kids playing these types of games. Some are very good players and some rattle your nerves. So goes it with adults. Good and bad in everything and in everyone. Where the game becomes a problem is when it takes up every waking moment of a persons life. The games are fun but you have to balance it with real life and not sit in front of the screen all day. I have struggled with this myself at times. Sony and the like may infact be enticing youth to play to keep their player base but if you die at a young age due to a sedentary lifestyle the game promotes, then what are they really gaining? This is where its the parents right to get their kids off the computer for some good old fasioned interaction into real life.

I don't think the problem is 14 year-olds its jerks in general. There's 14 year-old jerks and there are 80 year-old jerks. Sure its more likely to run accross a kid that is a complete pain. This is common, even expected. Heck I know when I was 14 I was a little punk who though he knew everything. Still though I've met people in thier 70's that are just as bad or worse than I was.

The problem isnt that 14 year old Kewl Doods play the game, the problem is that EQ has changed to allow for much faster leveling through the low levels ... the brats dont go through the pain that I went through, learning to call trains so as to not kill the bystanders at the zone lines, learning about crowd control and agro management until they are in their 50's. lessons that should have been learned in the teens.

Stereotypes are a generalization of a particular group. Usually, the the flashiest(moreso than the majority) members of the group are considered when defining a stereotype. So what do I want to say, anyway? That the stereotypical 14 years old male is a griefer because most griefers belong to that age group. But the opposite isn't true.

As for maturity, that's way too variable to tell. Some 14 years old teens can think just as maturely as a 30 years old, while others can prove they have less judgement than a kindergarten-level kiddo. That's what teens are all about: you can't exactly say how mature they are all because their psychological evolution is different for each of them.

Honestly, I think some of the teens are so mature and nice to have around that we should not discriminate against them. Immature high-Immersion players can be wonderful roleplayers, if a bit unpredictable.

Rep to: Vaughn
The items or whatever they have or had has absolutely nothing to do with it. It all boils down to someone playing fairly with others. And in an online games, there are rules to abide by. And with said 14 year olds griefing others it tends to bring the enjoyment of the game down for alot of people.

And yes there were alot of things i wished i could do when i was younger, but because of rules and such i could not. There have been games mainly within the computer industry that have been adult oriented basically because most kids didn't use the computer as much as they do now. So times change and windows makes things easier for the average joe to use one. With that said there needs to be more enforcement on age restrictions when it comes to games.

Just because you are a kid don't mean you can do anything and everything you would like. There are rules and regulations for everything. And I can definatley see now why back then why there were rules in place. Not to say i wouldn't try to bend those rules. But that just goes along with being a rebelous teen. And the companies if they wish to maintain a more respectable audiance will use more strict guidelines or will simply be a fad for a time, until the griefers take it over. Because the rest of the senseable people (18 and up) have left due to the irritating behavior.

This is why in my humble opinion that i think there should be some games oriented toward 17 and under. As well as some for 18 and up. And this can simply be taken care of through billing and accounts. Not to say it will get rid of 100% of it. But it would get rid of a majority I would say.

And I could careless what level, item or status a kid has.. But i did find it humerous.

The comments here are as fascinating or more so than the research. These in particular pose a very interesting question, to me at any rate.

The adults (not only here, and not all here) who are deriding the stereotypical teenage male in games are presumably claiming to be more mature than those teenagers - yet it is clear that they lack the ability to overcome their own outrage at the hands of said teenagers.

In the interests of disclosure, I'm a 25-year-old professional who spends quite a bit of time in-game. What is often striking to me - and what I am responding to here - is that while many adults in general may be less griefing-oriented, they are absolutely, 100% capable of pitching a gigantic temper tantrum when an item is perceived to be unfairly taken, when they perceive themselves to be unfairly killed, etc. Now, one would posit - okay, *I* would posit - that the mere fact of allowing oneself to become aggrieved in the majority of these cases (I am excepting real, ongoing harassment, which I have certainly seen) demonstrates a lack of ability to rise above the level of maturity of the player who is doing the griefing.

I'm aware of the general/oft-repeated complaints - that the game "was better before the kids found it", that they're ruining the experience, etc. And I support people who wish to play in an exclusively RP environment (as in a special server) in supporting that exclusivity. But, IMHO, just as it is our choice to create and share our gameplay in the ways that we choose, it is others' choice to do so as well.

I'm no huge fan of the leetspeaking teenage stereotypical boy, not by any means. But that just leads me to conduct my playing experience such that I avoid those players, subtly if possible, overtly if not.

Besides, frankly, most teenage boys (and teenage girls) have plenty of problems (and I don't mean that in a way that is necessarily flattering) without me stomping on their heads because they looted the Special Happy Sword of Superdoom and logged :) Not that plenty of adults don't have problems, but the reasons that we decry the presence of the teenage boys ought to be the same reasons that we are, as adults, able to rise above it and carry on.

Roba, that was a great response. I havent been a teenager for a very long time, but I havent quite gone senile enough yet to forget when I was. I really love the way that "adults" would criticise anyone for immaturaty when we spend more hours than we care to admit manuevering our little uber cartoon characters around a screen.

I see adults react to what they consider childish behavior in games far differently than they would in real life quite often. It does not always denote a high level of maturity on the part of the adult and quite often makes me wonder how these people survived their own children.

The simple fact is, that no one likes rudeness no matter what age group it comes from. If I maintain a stance as a level headed adult, I can have fun with those who are maturity challenged and most of the time difuse a situation that could turn ugly.

You see, in my game world, I have no tolerance for the "ugliness" found in the real world. So I simply do not take part in it no matter what age group is involved. If I cant add something possitive to a bad situation, I simply remove myself from it and do something else for a while.

In my gaming experience, I have had far more so called adults bring me grief in game than anyone under oh say 30. I have played with "kids" from age 6 to 21 and had a blast with all of them. I am also very protective of other peoples children moreso than of other peoples adults.

Besides, if the worse thing a teenager ever does to me is grief me in a game, then life is good. Perhaps if adults would stop taking themselves so seriously in a silly game that has absolutely no bearing on our real life, then we could all have a bit more fun. There are lots of young people out there who are commiting felonies on a daily basis. I would much rather see someone stick them in front of a computer screen and say, "ok--go grief the community". Wouldnt it be great if gaming grief were the only grief I had to deal with?

Adults are supposed to know that the happenings inside a game mean nothing in our real lives. We are supposed to have the maturity to look at a situation and say, "How important is it anyway"

Every griefer I've seen in WoW so far has been under the age of 15. About half of them play Rogues.

Coincidence? I think not.

If you can't beat em..join em! 47yr old female (Wow) BE rogue. Wait...in RL? Too funny..it's fun! Always wanted to be a killer diva, with a Mom twist. Only thing disturbing, is the actual older women I have seen manipultaing these teens and young men ingame. To the point of RL, lifechanging "instances", such as moving across country for an overthehill lonely woman met ingame. I have seen this happen twice in one year. My own son almost fell for it. I tell you..it is most fun to expose this shenanigan, in diva rogue style, jump on my OLD priest...and give advice to the endangered. Nothing you would not encounter in RL..but parents should know some of the things that go on in "just a game". If their children are not mature enough for predatory adults...they should at least be informed, if they are playing.